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New York Times reporter Jonathan Swan suggested during a “60 Minutes Australia” interview released last week that President Donald Trump has “Napoleonic” ambition and a political survivability that should humble journalists.
Swan and fellow Times reporter Maggie Haberman discussed their new book, “Regime Change: Inside the Imperial Presidency of Donald Trump,” and Swan offered speculation on the rest of the president’s term and cautioned other journalists to have some humility.
“So there’s still a sense that, even if Democrats take the House from Trump, they really can’t touch him,” Swan said in the interview. “And, like you said, his family’s made a lot of money. He’s wealthier than he’s ever been. He has immunity conferred by the Supreme Court. And there’s no prospect, even if he does get impeached, there’s no prospect of a conviction.”
“I think Donald Trump’s obituary has been written so many times — his political obituary — by so many people,” Swan continued. “And by this point, if you don’t have some humility around that, I think, you know, you’re operating in a fairly delusional way. This is someone who has incredible survival capacities, who’s able to regenerate himself, and he’s still got two and a half years left as the most powerful man on the planet, with no intention of receding at all.”
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For over a decade, even when he was not in office, President Donald Trump has dominated American politics, having led a movement that shook the political landscape. (Kent Nishimura/Reuters)
As he spoke about the future of Trump’s term, he noted that the president’s next step may be taking on the Cuban regime.
“So there are many things he could do,” he said. “The most obvious in foreign policy is Cuba. They’ve been looking at potential regime change in Cuba, but who knows? It’s a big world out there, and we don’t want to start being pundits and prognosticating.”
Swan also described a past encounter at the White House that he suggested speaks volumes about Trump’s personal mindset and policies. As Trump met with Swan and Haberman, he had purportedly shown them a document he claimed was written by a historian.
“So it opens by saying Donald Trump is the most powerful man who’s ever existed, ever lived on the planet, by far,” Swan said. “And then it goes on to compare him to what Donald Trump said was, to us, the top ten. And it was Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Napoleon, Attila the Hun, Genghis Khan, the Caesars, Alexander the Great, Tamerlane … there’s probably one I’m missing.”
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New York Times reporter Jonathan Swan claimed that President Trump showed him a document comparing himself to strongmen of the past, including Napoleon Bonaparte. (VCG Wilson/Corbis via Getty Images)
“And it had nothing to do with morality,” Swan continued. “The document didn’t mention morality. It was about power and raw power.”
The premise of the document, Swan said, was that Trump is the most powerful leader in history and is willing to use power in a way no previous president has done within their lifetime, which he noted was remarkably similar to the book he wrote about the administration.
Swan added further, “I think it’s also that he wants to be a sort of Napoleonic … you know, the person who only needs to be known by one name, who is the defining figure of our age. And so, when Trump thinks about himself in history, I don’t think he’s comparing himself to Bill Clinton or, you know, name your U.S. president — Eisenhower. I think it is to figures like Napoleon and that he wants to be the defining global figure of our age.”
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The White House responded to the interview by touting, “President Trump is fighting every day to deliver the strong, safe, and prosperous country that we all deserve. The only legacy President Trump is concerned with is making America greater than ever before.” (Win McNamee/Getty Images)
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In response to Swan’s comments, White House spokeswoman Olivia Wales told Fox News Digital that “President Trump is fighting every day to deliver the strong, safe, and prosperous country that we all deserve. The only legacy President Trump is concerned with is making America greater than ever before.”
